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Ying: [00:00:00] Welcome to ADHD Gathering, a podcast, highlighting diverse narratives within the ADHD community and amplifying strength from real ADHD folks. I’m your host Ying, also known as ADHD Asian Girl across all social media.
Let’s tune in to today’s show.
Today I have a very special guest, Dr. Rebecca Jackson. We met each other first on Twitter and we’ve been chatting with each other because our common interest in positive psychology and many other things. So Dr. Rebecca Jackson, please introduce yourself.
Becci: thank you for having me on the podcast. So yeah, I’m Dr. Rebecca Jackson, but you can call me Becci. I’m a positive psychology coach. I’m ADHD and autistic myself. And I work with ADHD and autistic adults in the coaching space, helping people with things like zest, energy, self regulation. And of course, executive functioning.
So thanks for having me on the podcast.
Ying: Thank you for being here. So let’s start with the origin story, [00:01:00] when did you recognize you might have signs of ADHD? And we were talking back and forth before, it seems like you recognize you might have ADHD way before you got a diagnosis.
So tell me more about that whole process.
Becci: That’s exactly what happened. So I think I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022. But I actually first heard of ADHD and thought, Oh, that sounds like me as far back as 2016. So six years before I got my diagnosis. And of course, on brand for ADHD, I thought, Oh, that’s me.
And then I didn’t do anything about it. But yeah, there was quite a gap.
Ying: What are some early signs for you when you were studying the psychology lectures that stood out to you and made you think, Hey, like this sounds familiar, maybe I could see some of myself in those lectures.
Becci: I was trying to be a university lecturer and I was quite a junior academic. Even before I heard anything about ADHD, I noticed that I was procrastinating a lot and for the first time in my [00:02:00] life. And I noticed it and I also noticed the anxiety that came along with it and the overwhelm as well, but that was before I read anything.
And then one day I was standing in my office and I was researching how to help university students be more Engaged and motivated in their learning. And there was a tiny footnote at the bottom of one page which said, Oh, and this topic also links with ADHD. And being interested to study things links with ADHD.
So I went down an internet rabbit hole and then I learned about interest based motivation and motivational problems. So that was a real sign for me.
Ying: That’s so interesting. So it’s the two factors is the procrastination as well as the interest based motivation.
Wow. So yes, I have gone through that rabbit hole too. When I first learned about ADHD, that was quite the rabbit hole. I think that’s like the prerequisite of anybody who got an [00:03:00] adult ADHD diagnosis is have you gone through the rabbit hole?
Becci: Oh, it should be on the diagnostic criteria. Definitely.
Ying: Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. So what are some key strategies that have helped you now to manage a very fulfilling and full life since your 2022 diagnosis?
Becci: There’s a couple of things that, I turn to almost on a daily basis just to help me regulate myself, because I think if you’re regulated, then you have a fighting chance of having the day that you want to have. So I pay a lot of attention to pacing and energy management. Because I’m also autistic and that affects my energy levels. Lots of things like journaling, reflection.
Also I have what I call my trifecta, which is like my three activities that I try to do two, at least. And for me, that is yoga, meditation and hiking or walking in nature. Those three things have been the biggest game changers for me.[00:04:00]
Ying: Yes, absolutely. I love those things as well. Movement, meditation and nature. Co regulating with nature is so awesome.
Becci: It really is.
Ying: Could you tell me a bit more about the pacing and energy management? How do you approach it? How do you help your clients do that? Because we, as ADHD folks oftentimes have this inconsistent energy level.
How do you approach that? How do you make sure you still largely get down what you want to finish with this inconsistent energy level?
Becci: So I think I’ll talk about myself and then I’ll talk about how I might help clients. So a lot of the things with my ADHD that might be a challenge for me actually depend on things like awareness and attention. So the way I approach pacing myself is just to increase the opportunities to check in with myself and actually notice what is going on.
So I have like a five minute morning journaling practice that I [00:05:00] do where I can check in with myself and see how much energy I have. But actually, do you know what? We are living in the future. We have so much technology and free apps and wearables that can help. And lately I’ve been using apps to look at how much energy I might have or what my heart rate is like, what
my sleep is like, And so if you can’t rely on yourself to pay attention to your energy reliably, you can use technology to fill in the gaps now.
And then in terms of clients so it may be, I have a bit of a rule in my practice that I wouldn’t suggest a tool or a strategy if I hadn’t it and tested it on myself
So they might try things that I’ve. Tried like using certain apps or using journaling. But really it is about them finding their own way to pay attention to their energy, to their needs as well.
And then to find easy and realistic and [00:06:00] doable ways that they can then manage their energy. And it really is not a one size fits all kind of approach.
Ying: Yeah. So it’s the awareness piece of first pay attention to what is going on and then recognize at those moments what are our needs and how might we accommodate them in an easy way.
Becci: Absolutely, because if you aren’t aware of what is going on, you might try a solution that doesn’t fit to the issue. So that intelligence gathering piece, it’s like being like Sherlock Holmes. You have to get quite forensic about what’s going on because. Then you can find the right solution.
Ying: That’s so true. I love that. And I think that ties so well with when we started chatting, you mentioned about self regulation through somatic and sensory practices. So I do see some overlap here because if we have more somatic and sensory awareness, we’re more likely to be aware of our body state, emotional state, and everything else.
So tell me more about that. The somatic or [00:07:00] sensory practices, what kind of practice do you do for yourself or what kind of practices would you recommend for your clients?
Becci: Yeah. So I think it’s important to say that the research is getting better on this all the time. And there’s a paper that’s come out recently, which suggests that things like not being aware of your needs or your energy budget that can actually be improved that relationship to yourself where you can know yourself and know your needs, can actually be improved by some of the kind of somatic and sensory practices that I do.
So for me, yoga and meditation are really key. I did a self intervention study two years ago and Before I did the study, my anxiety levels were in the clinically moderate range. And after three weeks of just doing 10 or 15 minutes of yoga and meditation. There was no anxiety there that would register on a clinical scale.
So even a few weeks of something [00:08:00] like that would potentially work. But I think when it comes to recommending like specific things that you can do, it’s really important to take into account what’s realistic, what’s enjoyable, what’s possible, but also what is safe and what is autonomously chosen as well.
I’m a big fan of breathwork, but I wouldn’t tell a person with a history of quite significant trauma to do breathwork. I would say you could do breathwork, but maybe talk to a trauma informed neurodivergent breathwork practitioner and get some support around that and decide if it’s right for you.
There’s all kinds of things you can do and sensory stuff can be really helpful, even if it’s just, some fairy lights and some incense. Whatever you enjoy that calms you down, it can make such a difference.
Ying: Yeah I love what you said , it doesn’t have to be this fancy thing because even when I read the Somatic and Sensory practices, my mind translated [00:09:00] into like really complicated things. I’m like, oh, I’m about to learn something new. But in the end, it’s the good old basics of movement and meditation.
And like you said, try things on and see what works for the individual. How do you know the practice are the right ones? Cause I’ve noticed personally, there’s two directions. It’s almost. Imagine the window of tolerance. If we’re in the fight or flight, we need something to bring us down and ground.
And if we’re in the freeze, we need something to give us the zest to push us up a little bit. So how do you know which practices are the right ones for you at different moments?
Becci: I think it goes back to what we were saying before about trial and error and intelligence gathering. You need to understand what works for different things. And that’s why coaching or journaling or peer support can be really good because it actually holds that reflection space.
We can be so busy, so overwhelmed that we don’t stop to think about what is actually going to [00:10:00] work for us. But there are some other things that I would consider as well. What is enjoyable
if you think that you need to be a marathon runner, because that will be good for your mental health.
Do you actually like running? Why would you do that? If it doesn’t bring you joy, right? And what’s realistic, we talk about movement, but what if you are disabled physically and cannot move or cannot move in the same way as an abled person, you would have to find versions of movement or ways of using your body that would work for you.
And then to reiterate again, what is safe.
There may be things co occurring conditions or previous life experiences that mean that you probably shouldn’t try certain things, but really my rule of thumb is, can I do it? And do I enjoy it? If it feels good and it’s possible for me, then that’s a good sign.
Ying: I love that idea. Do I enjoy it? And is this doable? Does this feel like a reachable goal? Yeah. [00:11:00] Oftentimes, even I have ideas of if I want to pick up a new hobby or a new routine, I’m thinking about the maximum version of it instead of say, I’m going to run for a minute I’m thinking about already I’m going to run a marathon.
I think that’s part of the ADHD Challenge
Becci: exactly. And can I add to that? If I was thinking about a way to support myself to, improve my energy levels or regulate myself, I would also ask myself, who am I doing this for? Am I doing this because I think it’s a good idea or because I’m trying to please someone or be perfect.
A lot of us come with perfectionistic baggage and people pleasing tendencies. Comparison is the thief of progress, just because someone is telling you, Oh, you should do running. You don’t have to, right, who are you doing it for?
Ying: Oh, I love that. Like we subconsciously want to control the image we want to put out to the world. And yeah, I would be the first one to admit I hate running. I can only do Zumba because it’s fun, because [00:12:00] you get different songs and different routines. I think it stimulates my ADHD brain for the variety piece. And yeah, that’s only one I found that’s workable.
Becci: Take that into account, right? Because for many of us, and for me in particular, exercise is boring. Okay. And we are driven by interest. I don’t go to the gym because I find it boring to go to the gym. go hiking because I can take my dog and I can look at different animals and trees.
It’s more interesting. So definitely pick something that piques your interest.
Ying: We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background are in [00:13:00] positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
Since we’re more contextualizing this, could you tell me more about how you might make, say, meditation, or journaling, or your other movement piece, like yoga, more interesting for yourself? What does that look like for you? Because I’m a meditation teacher in training, and a lot of times I hear people say that Oh, it just looks so boring.
And I’m saying, but there’s so many meditation practices you can try. Yeah, so I would love to hear more about how you make things interesting for you.
Becci: Yeah. So I definitely have opinions and ideas on this. So my view is that often if an intervention that we’re choosing for ourselves, like yoga or meditation, if that is not stimulating enough, especially like cognitively for your mind then it will be hard to engage with more bodily practices.
And this applies to rest as well as, movement [00:14:00] practices. So the key would be to give your mind what it needs, almost like mental chewing gum, just to occupy the mind. And so what do I do? I find it really hard to do Yin yoga or just lie still even though it’s good for my body.
So this is counterintuitive, but I would listen to a really intense true crime podcast while I’m doing yoga.
And you would think that is like really counterintuitive, but I can then engage with the bodily practice that I need because my mind is occupied.
You can do whatever is as long as it’s safe for you. If it works for you that’s the key. Just do what makes it work.
So each of us will have a different cognitive profile and we’ll have different needs. I, for example, I’m aphantasic, so I don’t have a mind’s eye. I can’t see, if you say to me, imagine an apple, I can’t see anything. So a lot of [00:15:00] pre recorded meditations from like Headspace. They predominantly ask you to visualize things.
And so that’s really inaccessible, not just boring, but inaccessible to me. So I try to substitute what I might be able to hear. Cause I have a really good mind’s ear, so you could change the sensory experience of the meditation. Also I like meditations that require me to count, like count the breath or, focus on a particular body part, because that gives me something to do, that’s going to change from person to person. You might need to try a few things, find what gives you the right level of stimulation so you can engage.
Ying: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. For me, I meditate a lot better when I’m outside. If I have a deck or balcony, and if it’s not super noisy, more like the nature sound, I meditate a lot better because more of my sensory needs are being engaged. There’s wind, there’s sound, I can smell something and then [00:16:00] more likely to then pay attention to whatever I’m supposed to do in the meditation.
Becci: Yeah. And meditation really is about directing your attention, right? It’s not about controlling it perfectly, forcing your mind to be empty and still, which is not the aim of meditation. A lot of people mistakenly think that is the aim of the meditation. So if meditation is about Directing your attention or learning to just accept how your attention is, then actually, why not be mindful about how you are walking?
I like to walk and feel the rocks under my feet. And a meditation paying attention to the sensation.
Ying: And mindful eating that ‘s a practice some people do as well. There’s many other ways. Yeah. What about journaling? Since we’re on this good journey of figuring out how you contextualize these practices for yourself. I have heard a lot of my clients saying that they know journaling is good, but it’s either too boring or [00:17:00] they can’t remember to do it or it feels overwhelming.
Those are some common things I’ve heard.
Becci: Yeah. So I would imagine you’re quite interested in how to build and embed any kind of habit, right? So maybe like how to start and build in journaling is a good way to, to talk about that a little Yeah. So you mentioned earlier, this kind of ADHD tendency to decide that you want to run.
So you sign up for a marathon instead of just running for 10 minutes. And the same is going to apply to journaling. If you try to do too much too soon, you will inevitably fail. You will feel terrible about yourself. And. Actually, you are probably in a worse position than if you hadn’t tried at all.
So I really like the tiny habits methodology. Working out what is the minimum lowest bar, like the crappiest level of success you can say [00:18:00] I journaled today. And for some of my clients. They journaled today, looks like actually opening the notebook and just writing the date.
If they don’t do anything else, that counts as journaling and that builds the habit. And then when they do that for a few weeks, then they might write down how they feel with one word.
And we build it up over time. It’s taken me a while now, but I can say that I’ve journaled every day for a year.
Because I just do it for five minutes. I have some preset headings and I don’t have great expectations of myself. I’m not demanding too much of myself. The bar for success is very low.
Ying: I love that. The crappiest level of success and the lowest bar. I love that idea. And even free ourselves up to reimagine what journaling looks like. Just a date or just one word. Those are such great examples. I’m definitely going to think about it.
Becci: We can also have quite black and white thinking [00:19:00] all or nothing thinking about this, right? So if you say, Oh, I’m going to journal perfectly and write three pages every day, when you don’t do that, when you inevitably don’t do that, you can get emotionally dysregulated and say I’m never journaling again.
That will never work for me. And then you never move forward. But something is always better than nothing. So it’s better to walk for two minutes a day than no minutes a day. It’s better to meditate for one minute a day than no minutes a day because you will make progress over time.
Ying: Yeah, I love what you said about how if we tried too much too soon, we may end up being a worse place than before. I do think that is not the message we get from society. Society oftentimes is really pushing everybody to try a lot and then to say Oh, if you shoot for the moon, you at least Yeah,
just go
Becci: Just go
Ying: straight to the stars
exactly.
And for ADHD folks, we have [00:20:00] the guilt and shame of not doing something and that, like you said, would stop us from even trying it again.
Since we’re on this tangible route, tell me more about how did you tangibly discovered your strength of, being interested in psychology and becoming a positive psychology coach and now a psychologist in training.
How did you figure out your strength and how do you think ADHD might help you doing this work, like the work you’re very interested and passionate about?
Becci: So actually, I think I should thank my ADHD for setting me onto this path because I was a trained coach anyway, but when the pandemic hit in 2020, and I found myself at home and bored and understimulated. I have a strength of love of learning. And I decided to study something to get through the pandemic and I Googled some things that I am interested in.
And then I found positive psychology.
[00:21:00] So Following my interest, rather than fighting against my interest led me to this path. And you asked about my strengths. I learned my strengths by training to be a coach because we had to find, we had to take some surveys and do some reflections.
And it’s really interesting. You look at my strengths and I think they fit to a coach, but they also fit to a coach who is ADHD.
My strengths are curiosity, creativity, love of learning, humor is my top strength. This sounds very much some presentations of ADHD. So it feels very authentic to me, what I’m doing as well.
Ying: Yeah. I love that. Same. I share the love of learning. And I want to the follow up question is how do you then not overload yourself with trainings and what we’re interested in? I think that’s where my ADHD into problem is, oh my god, so many rabbit holes. They all sound so exciting. And I have this love of learning and then I always end up with too many trainings and too many [00:22:00] things to learn on my plate.
Becci: It’s a problem. And in positive psychology, we talk about strengths, having a dark side and a light side, right? Overuse, underuse. And the thing is, when I talk to my clients about this stuff I say to them you have to understand that even something that theoretically sounds really good can be bad for you.
Water is great, but if you drink six liters, you could get water toxicity, right? So it’s the dosage. That is the problem. And the trouble with learning is I think it’s a bit of self medication, right? For many ADHD people, because learning gives you dopamine. And so if you can get some coaching or journaling or have some self regulation practices, you will be able to notice if your learning is serving you, or if it’s hurting you.
It’s not helping you then you can find ways to cut that off. If I’m feeling quite burnt out, then I will just take a week where I say I’m [00:23:00] not doing any research this week. I go cold Turkey. If it would be serving me, I would say that it gives me more energy than it takes. And I would experience more flow. So the positive side of focus for sure. And if it would be hurting me I would be tired. I would not be able to focus on the priorities rather than the things that I’m you obsessively interested in.
And there are also physical markers as well. My face gets very red if I’m, going too far with my learning and concentrating too much. So you can learn your signs, whether that’s from self awareness or from data, from apps, you can learn the signs over time.
Ying: Yeah, I love what you said about, gives you more energy than it takes. I found that being so true of like discovering anything that truly rings the bell for me in life that I want to do over and over again. Thus, I’m doing this podcast thing because I realized every single time I record a [00:24:00] podcast, if I’m the host and I do an interview, I end up with more energy than when I go into it, and that’s how I know, wow, like this thing, it truly has some creative juice for me.
We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background are in positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
So tell me more about how positive psychology coaching for ADHD folks might look similar or different from regular ADHD coaching.
Becci: Yeah, so I’m not actually trained as a regular [00:25:00] ADHD coach, but I have had, more typical ADHD coaching. And actually, if you think of coaching as a skill set or coaching as a set of competencies, Then what a coach might do might not be that different. Coaching is a helping supportive relationship that helps people figure out what they want to need and how to achieve that or how to be that.
And so the actual coaching skills of questioning, listening, giving feedback, like reflecting patterns that the person might not have noticed that probably doesn’t change all that much I would say. And there are commonalities, right? Because I would bring executive functioning into my conversations and an ADHD coach definitely would as well.
What positive psychology has to offer, but I don’t know how different it is that we use a lot of psychoeducation. So we try to bring in the research and the models from like wellbeing or health, [00:26:00] or, dealing with anxiety, things like that. And we can use a bit of the science, a bit of the evidence based to help people get some understanding and context of what is going on. And I also think it’s very naturally neuroaffirmative as well, because, we really focus on the person and making everything work for them. And, we respect their autonomy and we encourage them to be authentic.
Ying: And also I think it’s very neuroaffirmative in terms of helping people recognize their strength and use their strength to approach life, which is just not the approach I’ve seen in the larger society, which is more about these are the expectation of being an adult. And these are the expectation of what it means to have full time jobs.
And then it’s leaving the neurodivergent folks to force ourselves into those existing models versus positive psychology kind of highlights individual strength and help people reimagine what it would be like to bring those strengths [00:27:00] to different things in life.
Becci: Yeah, one of the things I like best about it is the fact that we tend to focus on what is strong rather than what is wrong, which, when you’ve existed within a deficit model or you’ve tried to conform and mask, that’s a much more healing space to be in.
But I’m just wondering if we should say that Positive psychology is not about toxic positivity
and that negative emotions are important and valuable and welcome within that process. Anger tells you that something needs to change or shame tells you that you might need to be more compassionate to yourself.
Just because you see the word positive don’t think that everything has to be fake and toxic. And it’s really not like that.
Ying: I love what you just add there. Negative emotions are part of the signals again back to collecting intelligence. That’s the intelligence we analyze and use. And yes, as we’re here do you mind [00:28:00] sharing a definition of what positive psychology is for you or what is a working definition you will use for your clients?
Becci: If I’m explaining it to somebody for the first time, then I tend to just call positive psychology the art and science of well being. And that’s my favorite off the shelf definition that covers a lot of bases, I think.
Ying: Yes. I love that idea. It really is a focus on well being and helping people bring out what’s the best in them and live a fulfilling life and it’s very much a very grounded approach of knowing life contains part of pain and suffering and not shying away from it. So yeah, I love how you pointed out it’s not the toxic positivity.
Becci: Yeah, I think that’s what people might misunderstand or they might be like reluctant to reach out to talk about that. To be very clear, how can you make progress on emotional dysregulation if you can’t bring the negative emotions into the conversation? They don’t feel nice. But they have a [00:29:00] message for you and, you can waste lots of time and energy fighting against those emotions, or you can say what are they telling me and how can I make things different for me as a result?
Ying: Yeah. In terms of making things different for yourself, I would love to hear your story about how you managed to travel to Everest Base Camp. I followed the whole journey on Twitter. I was amazed because From my perspective, I have very sensitive sensations in terms of visual and sound and everything.
So a lot of times my strategy would be, if something feels too much, I end up avoiding it completely. And so following Becci whole journey of doing this great adventure really opened my eyes up of what’s possible. I would love for you to share how you approach the whole process. What are some ways you make the trip easier for yourself and make it possible?
Becci: Yeah. I definitely did a lot of research and planning. Okay. But I want to [00:30:00] caveat that, right? It’s good if you’re doing something that’s potentially dangerous, like trekking at high altitude, it’s a sensible idea to know what could go wrong and to practice some more stoic ways of thinking, guessing what could go wrong so you can prepare yourself, and that’s really good, but we can’t control everything.
And in fact, We could spend all our whole lives trying to, avoid problems.
And then you just stay in your small little world and you never have great adventures, right? But one of the things that I did do is really try to think about the sensory aspect of it. And it’s a great case in point because the one sensory problem that bothered me was the one thing that I didn’t think of and possibly could not have done very much about.
I took care of the sound thing and I thought about wearing glacier glasses to protect my eyes. And I made sure to meditate every morning. Ying, let me tell you, meditating at the foot of Mount Everest, that [00:31:00] is some kind of spiritual experience, let me tell you. The thing that really caused me the most problems was my sense of smell because you are visiting these tea houses and they are cooking fried food with like very questionable fuel sources and the smell and the smoke would fill the whole tea house and you couldn’t gape it so I really had to be creative and try to spend time outside or, try to, not breathe sometimes.
So it just shows that you can’t plan for everything. You just have to manage things and have a self regulation toolkit. To help you with the unforeseen circumstances but there is one further tip I can offer.
So there are times when things are tough and your executive function and your motivation is not good so don’t use your brain, use somebody else’s. So I was really struggling one day. We had maybe like a thousand [00:32:00] stone steps to climb and it was really hot and really difficult
I could not find a motivation. I could not find the executive function to do that.
And my wonderful friend, Judith who I’m sure will listen to this. Judith did it for me. She walked with me and she counted. 50 steps. And every time we got to 50 steps, we stopped and we regulated, co regulated, we breathed together and we just did 50 steps and 50 steps until we got to the top. I could not do that.
So she did the executive functioning for me. So don’t be too proud get help if you need it.
Ying: Yeah. Having a safe person in any sort of new adventure and new activities is such a game changer for me. I’ve realized that. Even if I don’t end up needing that person, just the fact that they’re there and I know if something goes wrong, I could have somebody to run to it just changes the whole game for me.
Becci: Yeah, [00:33:00] I couldn’t have done it without Judith and the other women with me. I didn’t even know who they were, but because they were kind and supportive, that just gave me that extra 10 percent that I needed on particular days. So surround yourself with the good people.
Ying: Yeah, so it’s not just relying on the individuals to do the research and prepare ourselves but also leaning into the community. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation
together. Are there any last words or last bits you want to tell the ADHD community before you log off?
Becci: Yeah. There’s one thing. So I often talk to people about what I happen to be researching at the moment and what I’m working on in myself. If you’re working on your ADHD and your self regulation that’s great. But then guess what? You find that you are able to spend more time doing tasks and more time being productive.
And that’s great. But then where is the fun? Where is the joy? Where is the silliness and the [00:34:00] humor? So I just want to say to people, don’t forget joy and don’t forget fun. These things are part of a good and fulfilling life, but they also, protect you against depression and anxiety and promote dopamine functioning.
So that’s great if you can do your work tasks, but please book a date with yourself to do something completely silly
that’s my parting wisdom.
Ying: Yes. And I think the joy and the silliness is the zest and energy. gives us the zest and energy we need for life.
Becci: exactly and ADHD means you’re perfectly positioned sometimes to have more of that than somebody who isn’t ADHD. If you follow your interests and your wacky hobbies and go on a road trip and just book a random holiday, sometimes that is the right thing to do.
So don’t hold back.
Ying: Love that. Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Rebecca Jackson. And yeah, I just had so much golden nuggets in this [00:35:00] podcast.
Becci: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.
Ying: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. If you enjoy today’s episode, please feel free to drop a comment and review on apple podcasts or Spotify podcast. Or send me a DM on social media or send me an email to adhdasiangirl@gmail.com Sending lots of love to you and have a good day.