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Ying: Welcome to ADHD Gathering, a podcast, highlighting diverse narratives within the ADHD community and amplifying strength from real ADHD folks. I’m your host Ying, also known as ADHD Asian Girl across all social media.
Let’s tune in to today’s show.
Today I have a special guest~ James ~James Douglas Jr. We met each other last year at the CHADD conference at Baltimore, and I was super curious about~ him of ~his experience, especially as a African American male therapist, also an ADHD coach. So I’m so glad to have you on the podcast.
James, please introduce yourself.
James: So my name is James Douglas. I am a mental health and marriage and family therapist. I’m also an A DHD coach. I am based in Florida, and the population I like to work with are youth, teens, young adults, couples, and I would love to get into the space of working with more organizations to provide [00:01:00] support for their employees around A DHD.
Ying: Yeah. Awesome. So I like to start with the kind of A DHD genesis stories. How did you get diagnosed? ~But, ~and then the separate story of , when did you actively start to manage your ADHD, because sometimes those two can be different.
James: Yes, very true. So I was diagnosed when I was around six years old and I really didn’t have very many struggles. I talked to my parents about it. They said it’s more of impulsivity, but really wasn’t affecting home or school life. Everything really came easy for me at a younger age and in high school with sports and academics.
But as soon as I got to college, that’s when I started struggling with managing ADHD. So I was playing division one ~sport ~basketball and I struggled to manage my time effectively for studying and doing schoolwork, as well as being able to understand more about my A [00:02:00] DHD as a whole and also being able to learn different strategies for retaining information and working memory.
I would always compare myself to classmates and at that time I was really ashamed of the ~A DH ~ADHD in my diagnosis. I don’t think any of my ~friends were ~close friends, even knew that I had ADHD and it wasn’t really talked about as much at that time.
Ying: So in a way, so you’re balancing sports and schoolwork. So what did you decide to do around that time? Did you seek help? ~What did you, ~How did you help yourself through that time?
James: So for me, at that time, I was so ashamed to where I didn’t really seek support like I should have.
I was placed on academic probation. ~I. ~Then that right there was just a big hit to my confidence. ’cause once again, it was the first time where things didn’t come easy for me and I really didn’t know how to get out of it.
There was more just academic support, but it [00:03:00] wasn’t really specific for ADHD. But I never really seek that support like I should have. It was always given to me or offered, but I never really took advantage of it at that time. I think it was more geared around being ashamed about having to go there than also people finding out that I have ADHD.
Ying: Yeah. So how did you work through that piece? So then, now obviously you’ve become a therapist, so you probably have went through school ~and more training ~and more training to become a therapist. So tell me more about how did you work through that shame and moved yourself forward?
James: So for me, I actually ended up completing all the way up to my senior year at a University in Pittsburgh and I started working. So I ended up not having to leave the school because of my academic performance. Luckily for me, ~I~ when I was working, I was always working in the field of psychology. So ever since my freshman year of college, I was lucky enough to find a position to where I could [00:04:00] work with children and teenagers more in the group home setting and also ABA and IDD, so individuals with intellectual disabilities.
So that’s something that was very beneficial, but then it just struck me to the point to where I wanted to do more for myself. So I knew having a bachelor’s in psychology, where I saw myself, I knew I had to get a master’s. So I ended up relocating to Florida and started school back up again. I had to take the prerequisites for the new college, but after doing that, I was pretty much a junior senior.
So I just really worked hard on my grades at this time. I was a little bit older, so I was more aware of what worked for me in regards to retaining information. And I guess at the time I didn’t realize this, but it was metacognition that sometimes comes with ADHD. So I was able to identify what was working for me, [00:05:00] what wasn’t working for me, eliminate what wasn’t working and stick with what was working.
So I finished at the top of my class at the new university. With a 3.6 GPA. So I knew at that time I now had the grades to apply for a master’s program and to get into a good school with a higher GPA. So I didn’t want to lose that momentum. So I started enrolling and applying to schools right after my undergrad that second time around.
And this is the first time I actually had a panic attack because, funny story I was driving. I was accepted to all the schools that I applied to in Florida. And at that moment I think it hit me to where this is a big decision to decide on what master’s program I’d like to pursue. But after getting through that and deciding on the school, I just ~stepped ~stuck with those same strategies to help me in my undergrad to keep me going with my master’s program.
And also the master’s program was a little bit different compared to undergrad. ~You were. ~It’s [00:06:00] one focus on a particular subject, which was counseling for me and not as many tests ~like, ~because I never really was good at taking tests even before college. So it was more writing papers, presentations, and the actual field work of working with the clients and practicing.
So it was a little bit different and ~I really, ~it really connected with me and I really was able to grow and actually had a higher GPA in my master’s program. I think it was around a 3.9 GPA and my lowest grades were B s ~were ~the intro classes, which I find interesting. ~I don’t think it was interesting enough for me here, so it’s something, ~it wasn’t challenging enough, so I just didn’t go as hard for those.
But yeah that’s how I overcame that.
Ying: Wow, that’s so interesting. First of all, so many elements I hear about myself as well. Like I had to cancel a semester in college, basically I was all the way to junior year, close to Thanksgiving time. I just couldn’t push through anymore. I was in such bad depression and now looking back I’m like, oh, it’s definitely related to undiagnosed A DHD.
But [00:07:00] then I was able to go back and then finish school, but it was really hard and I had the same thing, like I didn’t even tell my best friends at the time about my depression. I didn’t have the language for it. I didn’t know that okay, you can talk about it, or talking about it actually makes it better.
Talking about it is the first step to deconstruct the shame . And it’s also so interesting that I have the metacognition as well, but I hate writing papers. I hate doing presentations. So it’s interesting to see how ADHD brains shows up so differently. What I want to touch on is you seem to like psychology from the beginning.
How did you figure that out? So did you always know that’s some something you were interested in and then you may have strength for? How did you figure it out?
James: Okay, so there’s a great story behind this. So I actually started in a small Catholic school and I was playing sports. I ended up transferring to a bigger public school my junior year [00:08:00] to play basketball and in that time they actually offered a psychology class and that’s when I first fell in love with psychology and knew from that class on that I wanted to pursue psychology ’cause just that something about the mind.
Ying: what part of the intro course that really captured your attention.
James: I think it was the study of the mind and behavior that really intrigued me something about it. And it could have been also the teacher
that was teaching at the time, she was a really good teacher. Oh my gosh, yes. ~Yeah. ~She was a really great teacher. Ms. Sprouse, I remember to this day, and ever since then , that’s when I pretty much declared to.
at least having my bachelor’s in psychology
Ying: Wow, that’s so interesting. ~Yeah. ~I’m curious, did you always play sports when you were growing up? I imagine you did to play division one sports in college. Did you feel like participating in team sports or having that kind of training and rigor and structure helped you as a child with [00:09:00] ADHD.
James: Yes, I had a lot of structure growing up and I think the sports aspect really helped with. I first started with trying out ~D, ~different sports around the age 5, 6, 7, and then what stuck with me was basketball, football. I played baseball until about high school and then I did track in high school as well, and then decided to focus just on basketball, football, and track my junior, senior year.
And I think it really did help with structure, the work ethic to keep on pursuing a goal that you might wanna reach. ’cause I always did wanna play college basketball. That was a goal of mine. And then also I think the ability to work with a team and be on a team. So working well with others I think goes a long way with team sports.
Ying: We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft [00:10:00] your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background are in positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
Yeah. That kind of goes into the question of, now you lead a very busy life, right? So how do you help yourself not get burnout and continuously showing up to support other people? And I imagine some of the stuff you just talked about from team sports is still helping you till this day.
Tell me more about how do you resource yourself day in and day out?
James: So for me, I like to make sure I definitely have time for myself and for my family. Throughout the week and the weekends. One thing I like to do for myself is ~exercise ~weight training. I do Pilates. I like to go [00:11:00] outside when I have a chance, and I like to stay active as much as possible. One thing that is hard for me is finding that balance, but ~I was also, ~I was told by a coach before that it’s very important to understand that.
You’ll always be adjusting and figuring out balance. So it’s never like a right balance. ’cause as life changes and as you grow and new things come into your life, you have to figure out a new balance for yourself. So I think hearing that has helped me to move a little bit away from figuring out a balance, but I guess rewording it to what is my balance currently, or what’s my balance right now?
Ying: I like that dynamic perspective. A lot of my clients will come in and they want to figure out like the perfect routine or the perfect solution. And I always have to remind them like it’s about what are your top priorities now and what is your bandwidth right now? And that may change like three months from now. Then we have to reevaluate. [00:12:00] Things could totally change.
So tell me more about what’s your experience like as an African American man and. Also a male therapist. I don’t see a lot of these combos. And any other identities that matters to you?
I know you’re a dad. How do all of those impact your A DHD experience, or how does ADHD impact all of those important areas of your life?
James: I would say to start. Being a African American male therapist, I didn’t really realize the impact that I could have on the community until I was in my master’s program. And a lot of the professors would tell me, they’d say, this is a great space for you to be able to provide support to the bipoc population.
And that’s when it really opened my eyes to the impact that I could have for this community. And I didn’t really see it again until I started practicing therapy after I finished to where a lot of individuals and families were actually reaching out to me [00:13:00] specifically because of that fact and knowing that I can help support them and then also their children whether it’s mental health or even ADHD.
Ying: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So the representation of probably seeing parts of themselves in you really matters. ~Yeah.~
James: Yes. ~I get that a lot. ~
Ying: Yeah. Do you still see the similarities with your A DHD clients as well, like the youth and the teenagers you work with? Do they tend to be more bipoc based as well?
James: Yes. I would say it’s a 60 40 split. 60 Bipoc, I would say. And I think it’s from word of mouth. So after working with one family and their children, them sharing the word to their friends and their family, and I do get that feedback as I had one family that relocated to South Korea actually from California, and they were African American family and they wanted someone that looked like their [00:14:00] son to be able to provide support, because I guess he didn’t have that support ~where he, ~where they just relocated to. And they wanted me to grow with them and grow with ~his, ~their son in regards to supporting him academically and with his ADHD.
Ying: Wow. I imagine that’s super satisfying. If it’s okay to share, with your clients. ~How, what, ~what’s the longest time you have worked with them and what are some ~like, ~the most treasured stories you have of seeing them transform and grow ~and imagine ~over the years?
James: So the longest I’ve worked with. Youth have been, I would say two years, going on three years. I’m still working with this family and I think the biggest thing that I love seeing is the growth that they’ve made ~from the, ~from day one. So starting with them in seventh, eighth grade, and then now them transitioning into high school and a new environment, new challenges, but knowing that I’m there to ~help, ~help support them in that journey, them and their family.
Ying: ~Yeah. ~[00:15:00] Yeah. Wow, that’s so interesting. So tell me more about, how do you help ADHD youth to work through potential shame related to ADHD or just in general, understanding themselves better and gain confidence and, grow like you just described.
James: So I like to learn more about them as a whole. I like to key on their strengths, some of their weaknesses that they feel they have. These things obviously change over time. I like to identify what their values are, whether it’s academics, personal, friends, family, and then I really like to teach them about growth mindset.
If they’re not aware of growth mindset versus fixed mindset, sometimes the younger population doesn’t really know too much about it. And even the older population I. Young teenagers, older teenagers, they’ve heard of it but don’t really know the differences between what a fixed and growth mindset looks like.
And I really like to key on their accomplishments. So [00:16:00] even if it’s something a little or larger, I do like to really praise them for their accomplishments. And I think that boosts their competence. And I like to teach these skills to the parents as well, so they can continue this in the household to be able to better support and still increase that awareness around confidence for their children.
Ying: Yeah, there’s so many good pieces there. First, gimme a crash course ~one one ~on growth mindset. In case there’s people listening to this, they’re like, I’m vaguely familiar. ~It was ~ but what does it entail?
James: Okay, so for me, I like to tell people the power of the word yet. So growth mindset is. Taking on challenges, trying new things, but also reminding yourself that you might not be an expert or advanced at it yet, but if you continue taking small steps in the right direction, you will get better at it in time.
I like to when working with the kids, always when explaining growth mindset versus fixed mindset. [00:17:00] I always use video games since that’s a popular one right now. I’ll say something like, when you first started playing Roblox or Minecraft or PlayStation or Xbox, were you good when you first picked up the controller?
And it’s always the same response. It was like, no. And I was like, so why didn’t you stop?
I wanted to be good at it. I want to get better at it. And I remind them, I’m like how are you playing now? Are you good now? And they’re like, yeah, I’m way better than what I used to be when I started.
And that’s the example I always give now with the younger generation around growth mindset and I connect that with any academic struggles that they’re having. Maybe it’s a new class, maybe it’s a new challenge for an assignment or a class that’s coming up and pair that with it to help them understand, open their mind to the possibilities that they do have if they do stay persistent and stay consistent with kind of reaching a goal that they might set for themselves.
Ying: I love that you use such a relatable examples for children, for teenagers. How do you work with the [00:18:00] patience piece? ’cause I need to hear that I’m not patient. I know a lot of times I set a goal and I wanna reach it tomorrow. Yes, I understand the idea like I’m not an expert yet, but my ADHD brain wants me to be an expert. Like today, no, yesterday. So tell me more about how would you work through the ~patient’s Is ~patience situation with the teenagers and with children. I imagine children especially, I was definitely not a patient children.
James: So a few things. I actually struggle with that sometimes myself in regards to wanting things immediately and not being patient. And I think my mom always used to say take your time. Things will come when they’re meant to come. But then also I think a lot of times, at least for me with my ADHD, I’m always overlooking the wins, so I’m never in the moment and really celebrating the wins. When I finished with my master’s, people were like, oh, that’s a great accomplishment, and I was onto the next thing. Like I never really even took the time [00:19:00] to celebrate that I just accomplished this and completed this.
When working with youth or even adults, ~I like to set, ~I use a smart goal system, so specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time bound. And I typically like to extend that out to about three months. Then adjust as needed. So it’s close, but also not too far away. And I really like to make it smart for that person so they can start to see the growth and change and whether it’s exercise, whether it’s studying, whether it’s a routine, but really starting small.
And then I always recommend starting smaller and then either exceeding that. Or just adding to it after about one or two weeks of successfully completing that goal that
you set for yourself.
Ying: Overlooking the wins. Yep. I’m definitely guilty of charge on that. And yes, starting small. This is something I only realized like a month ago. I finally got it. ~Yeah. ~Like I have to set realistic goals for myself [00:20:00] so I don’t lose momentum. I don’t lose ~the ~such an important part of motivation, which is competency ~and Yeah.~ But it took me this long to realize for myself that. That’s important for me too. Sometimes
it’s easier to tell other people that, and that I’m like, I do not apply it to myself. ~Yeah. ~
James: ~Yes,~
very true. Same here.
Ying: We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background are in positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
I know that you’re working on a course for hopefully that launch soon for adults and [00:21:00] parents living with A DHD or providing support to a loved one with A DHD.
Can you tell me more about what you wanna cover in the course and who the course at four and what topics you wanna cover.
James: I think the biggest thing that I would love to teach parents with providing support to a loved one with ADHD. Even themselves, I think is support. So being able to put what I do one-on-one into a course would be ideal in teaching parents how to better support their children and kind of the skills that we talked about a little bit earlier, like the confidence, the growth mindset having their back and being able to speak to them in a way that keeps them motivated.
Builds their confidence and doesn’t make them feel ashamed about their ADHD. It’s the struggle is figuring out how I can get my one-on-one into a course to where it’s really touching on all the areas that I feel are important for [00:22:00] a parent to provide support to their children. And I think it might be something that maybe is a few courses where I can really dive into each area for a course.
Growth mindset for a course, confidence for a course. Motivation for a course because I feel if I would’ve put it all together.
Ying: That’s so interesting. And yes, I think the key topics you mentioned are very important, like confidence, growth mindset motivation. And your website that’s. Related to mindfulness, and of course I have interest in mindfulness. Tell me more about why did you decide to use mindfulness as part of your website and how do you use mindfulness?
Do you weave it into your ADHD coaching? How do you introduce the youth or teenagers to mindfulness if you teach them that?
James: I can’t remember how I got the name of Mindful of A DHD. I think it really just resonated for me because that’s something that I’d like to work on myself with ADHD. I’m always kinda watching the next [00:23:00] thing, like I mentioned before. So being present and being in the moment is the happiest space that you can be in.
So that’s where the name came from, and wanting to portray that out to people to know that. With ADHD, being mindful is key and then that’s like your happy space. And the way I like to teach the people I work with around mindfulness is more explaining what mindfulness is. A lot of people are aware of the term, but don’t practice being mindful. And I think especially in today’s society with always the information we get right away, so fast. We have fallen away from being mindful and being in the moment and being present.
So being able to tell people, sometimes you gotta just pause, take a breath, take a break, and observe what you’re feeling. You can do mindful driving, mindful eating, and being able to teach them ways [00:24:00] to take a pause and even if it’s just for 30 seconds to a minute at least, you’re starting to practice.
And I believe, and it’s something that has worked for me, is to, once you start practicing this , it increases that awareness and then you see the results. So then you start to implement that in your life.
Ying: Kind of goes back to that smart goal of you set a small goal, set a reachable goal, and then once you hit the goal you start to see the benefits right away sometimes. Yeah. I imagine that taking a pause would be something that’s very important when you coaching couples who might have ADHD, what are some common challenges you have seen couples face? Maybe one or two of them both have ADHD. And how do you help them to navigate those challenges?
James: So I would say the biggest things I’ve seen work with couples is communication and emotional regulation. Those probably the two key areas I’ve seen with at least the clients [00:25:00] that I’ve worked with. ~And I like to, ~the way I create my program is I like to have the individual that lives with a DHD as the client, and then I will incorporate the spouse or the significant other into the coaching dynamic as well, ~have yet to.~
~ But I think I’d like to really identify what the,~~ ~I like to hear what the individual, living with ADHD, what their challenges are, and then also taking into account the spouses or ~sign, ~significant others’ challenges and what they’re experiencing on their end and bringing them in that space together to help them just talk about it and be with them in that journey to help them navigate and communicate more effectively. I do like to also provide some homework, or I don’t like to call it homework, but like self-work for them to work on the things together.
In the meantime, to check back in and let me know how things go. I like to provide support outside of the session. So I’m always available if they have any questions or any concerns about [00:26:00] maybe what we’ve talked about in our session. So I think that accountability goes a long way as well.
And so I do like to support them outside of the one-on-one coaching sessions as well.
Ying: Yeah, so communication emotional regulation. I’m curious about what are your go-to communication golden nuggets that you would like to give to your clients? ~Yeah.~
James: I would say the big one is the dynamic of the relationship.
Times you’ll see that ~it feels, one might say ~it feels like a parent child relationship, so I think getting out of that dynamic and making it partner to partner versus parent to child is very important. Helping them talk through and identify areas that make them feel like it is that type of relationship dynamic.
That golden nugget would be the communication piece. How we talk to someone goes a long way as well. So sometimes you can hear in the communication with each other. You [00:27:00] might be able to put yourself in that person’s shoes, how that person might feel based off of how they’re being spoken to by their partner both ways.
So I think identifying healthy communication, ~so ~teaching healthy communication skills, learning more about what healthy communication looks like for them, because it could be different from each partner. And then also being able to discuss difficult topics, but also their ability to figure out conflict. So if they’re having conflict and how they navigate conflict when they’re frustrated or emotionally dysregulated and being able to take breaks, teaching the person with ADHD around active listening so their partner feels heard
Ying: Yeah. Actively
Wow, that’s a lot. I love what you talked about, especially like the compassion piece of putting yourself in the other [00:28:00] person’s shoes ~and ~as well as a lot of times it’s about what’s not spoken. It’s not necessarily like words, but more so like how we are speaking the words and so yeah, I’ve definitely learned the lesson of taking a pause ~and ~which was really hard to do for me when I was younger.
Yeah. And I love what you said about ~healthy, ~what healthy communication looks like for the individual. I think that’s a piece that’s even, I’m struggling with that. I’m always ~like ~aspiring to the textbook way of communicating and then I’m not thinking about okay, what’s natural for me and what’s healthy communication looks like for me?
James: Yes. And usually in a relationship, if there’s ~10 things that your partner, ~10 things that you want in a partner, we typically are okay with them meeting about five to six of those things. It doesn’t have to be all 10. So ~I think it’s, ~I think it’s really identifying what’s important about a successful marriage, successful partnership.
And what does that look like? Because no one’s perfect, so we’re not gonna be able to fix every single thing. [00:29:00] So I think it’s really identifying what are the key areas that are important for this couple to have a successful and healthy relationship.
Ying: Yeah. ~Yeah, ~I definitely see that there’s a thread of you seem to be really good at metacognition, prioritization, and, I agree. Identifying key areas either for an individual or for a couple could be super important. And that’s something I learned and I help my clients to do as well, is at any given season of life, I always say pick your top three areas.
’cause then you have to prioritize those. And that means you might have to be willing to let some other areas go. We can’t work on all life areas at ~the ~any given moment, which my A DHD brain would love to believe . But it cannot.
James: Yeah, very true. And another thing I forgot to mention was also the person that is non ADHD to be able to learn more about A DHD. So them educating themselves, I like to send resources for them to look into, to learn more about. There’s [00:30:00] specific struggles that they’re having with their partner because a lot of times it’s separating it from knowing that they’re not doing it on purpose.
It’s not~ something that ~
Ying: ~yeah,~
it’s
not on purpose. It’s not personal. It’s not ~a ~specifically trying to do something to
James: Yes.
Ying: off.
I think we covered a lot of good grounds. What are some final words you would like to ~give or ~leave for the audience about ADHD or anything related to what you’re working on?
James: I would say final words would be continue to take small steps. I think as long as you’re taking steps in the direction that you would like to go in, you will see catastrophic change. Identifying a good support system. I think that goes a long way. It helped me out a lot with my ADHD and just life in general.
So having a nice, solid support system, whether it’s family, friends coworkers, whatever it may be. And I think never put your head down or be discouraged around [00:31:00] ADHD one thing. I think that is great as mental health and ADHD as a whole is talked about more nowadays, so finding that. Community to where you can share what you’re going through, what your feelings are some of your challenges and struggles and seeking support if needed.
Sometimes you just need a listening ear. Sometimes you might need coaching, whatever it may be. I think reach for that because you can accomplish anything that you set your mind to. a firm believer of that.
Ying: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, James. That was such a wonderful conversation.
James: Thank you for having. This is great.
Ying: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. If you enjoy today’s episode, please feel free to drop a comment and review on apple podcasts or Spotify podcast. Or send me a DM on social media or send me an email to adhdasiangirl@gmail.com Sending lots of love to you and have a good day.