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Ying: [00:00:00] Meghan Brown-Enyia is the founder of ADHD at work where she passionately empowers women with ADHD to thrive in both their careers and personal lives. Diagnosed with ADHD later in life. Megan’s journey of self discovery has transformed her perspective, allowing her to embrace her unique neurological wiring and leverage it for success. With a background in social work, education, business, and human resources. Megan is uniquely positioned to provide holistic support to her clients.
Hi Megan, welcome to my podcast. I think we first cross paths with each other, probably on Twitter. Megan run this awesome social media accounts about ADHD at work specifically.
So Megan, please introduce yourself and welcome to my podcast.
Meghan: Hi, thank you for inviting me. I want to say that first I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to tell my story, but also to really help your listeners with anything that they may be challenged with when it comes to ADHD and work. [00:01:00] So I am the founder and head coach of ADHD at work, currently I provide one on one coaching services for women with ADHD.
My goal is to help them thrive in their career. And I allow them to define work for them. So it’s whether or not they’re an entrepreneur, whether or not they’re a nine to fiver, whether or not they’re a mompreneur or a stay at home mom. Because that’s work as well, no matter what anybody tells you,
I’m doing all of the above.
And let me tell you it’s a lot of work. So I provide that one on one coaching for them. And I’m also working on a group coaching program as well.
Ying: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on to my podcast. And let’s start from the Genesis story of how did you suspect you have ADHD? When did you get diagnosed? And how has the journey been since?
Meghan: So I was diagnosed at 38. I want to say I know that I still look like I’m
Ying: You look young. Let everybody know, let the record show, Megan does not look like her age.
Meghan: And so at the time I was actually working for early childhood [00:02:00] intervention program. I was running the operations as a director there. And it was evaluating children ages three to five for special needs
and so kids were coming in, were getting diagnosed with ADHD. Kids were getting diagnosed with autism and all types of other developments and delays that they may have been experiencing. And it wasn’t until about year 10 of working in that place that I realized that I had ADHD myself.
And after speaking to my colleagues. That our psychologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, speech and language pathologists, they are all looked at me and said, yeah, Megan, of course you have ADHD. And I’m like, really? I’ve been working here for 10 years. You didn’t think you could say anything about that to me.
And, it was in the pandemic, like a lot of people got diagnosed during the pandemic. I was on social media and that ADHD was popping up left and right on social media. I was following a entrepreneur that switched her platform to talk about ADHD and entrepreneurship.
And the more she [00:03:00] started to come up with my feed and the whole algorithms and now one person with ADHD pops up on your field and everybody with ADHD pops up on your field. I realized it was me and that was also part of my story. And so I said, you know what? I have always been an advocate for special education familiar with the laws around special education for children.
Let me investigate for myself as an adult. I was blessed to have the opportunity to have a really great health insurance policy. And the process was really easy for me. And I recognize that is a privilege. And I was able to just email my doctor and said, Hey I want to get evaluated for ADHD.
Who do I talk to within the practice? Scheduled an appointment, got a test, walked away with a diagnosis. That part was easy. Now trying to figure out what to do after you get the diagnosis, now that was hard for me. Everybody’s like throwing pills at you, which I am definitely not anti medication whatsoever.
But I also knew that it wasn’t going to [00:04:00] fix all of my problems. And and at the time I made a decision to also not take medication and I’m still actually unmedicated ADHD, so I’ve actually never tried the medication, and that’s just because where I’m at in my life right now, just being a new mom, I was working on getting pregnant and I was pregnant and I’m nursing and that process I didn’t want to mix with medication.
And so I haven’t gone down that route yet. And so I needed to find other ways to manage. And then once I did, I realized that I was like, okay I need to switch careers for a number of reasons. And I started to think about what it is that I actually wanted to do, the direction that I wanted to go to be more intentional about my own career path.
And I realized I wanted to combine my experience in HR, my knowledge in HR, my knowledge in special education and laws, and I switched from children to adults. So ADA, the American Disabilities Act, in addition to my background as a social worker. So when I put it all together, I said, Hey, I think I want to be ADHD coach.
Ying: [00:05:00] It seems like you figure out you’d like to work with people pretty early on. that is something I’m interested in. Like, how did you figure that out? Because a lot of my own coaching clients Or people I come across a lot of them are usually in the process of figuring out their interests and or trying to forge a new path.
So what kind of advice would you give to people for them to figure out their interests and, to figure out a new path, which sometimes can take a long time and persistence.
Meghan: What I help my clients with now is that I, I have them do an executive functioning assessment. So the more I learned about ADHD, the easier it was for me to identify my strengths and my weaknesses is like when I really started to better understand my brain. So I offer the opportunity for them to do an executive function assessment, and that will really break down just how your brain actually functions.
And then from there also reflect on how those strengths and those weaknesses are being impacted or utilized or accessed [00:06:00] in your job. And then are you in a position that is maximizing your opportunity to use your strengths? Or are you in a job that is consistently having you use your weaker executive functions?
And that’s where I was. I was in a position where was all of my weaker executive functions were being used to the max. And it contributed to my burnout. And so I really had to reflect on, okay, like what part of this job do I actually enjoy. Because I was in the operations position, I was doing some HR work.
It was the HR part. So it was the talking to people. It was the interviews. It was the coaching of managers. It was a coaching of other leaders. It was the big picture thinking. And then when I think about how that matches my executive functions. It’s metacognition that big picture thinking is where my strengths are.
So that was a part that I was really trying to hone in and focus on when it came to my career. And that’s how I navigate that conversation with my clients too. It’s okay even if you’re an entrepreneur and a lot of ADHDers are entrepreneurs. And so even if you’re [00:07:00] an entrepreneur, just recognizing that there is part of your business that is going to tax your weaker executive functions.
And so how do you navigate those and build in accommodations to help support you so that you can excel within your business or how do you outsource? And being able to have real realistic conversations with yourself in order to be able to make the right decision for your career growth.
Ying: I love how you break down executive functioning into more granular pieces. And that is the first time I’ve heard people talk about, oh, ADHD folks could have executive functioning strength as well, because usually we hear ADHD and executive functioning, it’s about lack.
So tell me more about what are some ways people could have some strength in executive functioning and their weaknesses in some other executive functionings?
Meghan: So you may see an executive function weakness in organization, but then you also have ADHDers that are organizers also as well. It’s just recognizing that every brain is unique. And this is the same conversation I had with my husband. When we’re starting to talk about being in a [00:08:00] neurodiverse relationship and recognizing like we both have brains, we both have frontal lobes and we both need to see how they work.
And so we both take executive function assessments. This isn’t an opportunity for just the ADHDer, but this is the opportunity for everybody. And so nobody is strong in every area of executive function. That’s not a thing. And even though we tried to pretend in the worlds that some executive functions are more valuable than others, but the reality is, it’s it’s not, we need them all.
And so we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses when it comes to that part of your brain. And you can strengthen them and you can practice things, but you need to know what they are in order for you to build in some accommodations or resources or exercises to help strengthen those executive functions.
And that’s when it comes back into my own background, like working at early childhood. So working with early childhood, like you are not born learning how to walk you have to develop those skills. And if you don’t develop those skills, they can be delayed. And so sometimes like we had children coming through our process that there wasn’t [00:09:00] necessarily anything wrong with them, even though, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with anybody personally, but at the area of if they’re not necessarily meeting their a milestones by a certain age, there may be something going on neurologically, but then they also may just need a little bit more practice as well.
And so giving people the space and the opportunity to strengthen those weaker executive functions. With ADHD is the same thing.
So we can have a point of discussion around which executive functions they may be weaker, but how have you built in your own accommodations to help mitigate some of those challenges? For example, time management, ADHD has experienced time blindness. And so that’s neurological.
And literally having a lack of understanding of time, but then you have some ADHDers, they’re like, Oh, I’m always on time. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not experiencing time blindness. It means that you’re overcompensating. You have built in accommodations that work for you so that you are always on time.
And so that’s the same thing. It’s what are your weaker executive functions? How have you built an [00:10:00] accommodation so that you’re not experiencing the negative outcomes that can come with being weaker in those particular areas of development.
Ying: Yeah, definitely. Just for the audience who may, I think most of the audience probably know what executive functions are, but in the case that they don’t know, what are the top ones you usually work with your clients.
Meghan: We tend to work on planning and prioritization. We tend to work on organization. We really work on emotional control. That one is a big one for ADHD years and being able to regulate your emotions. We do work on some working memory challenges and task initiation. I would say probably at the top, what was that four or five areas of executive function because those seem to pop up the most when it comes to People’s weaker executive functions.
Ying: That’s so interesting to know each individuals have highs and lows in different executive functions, and definitely we can figure out tools and coping mechanism that works for [00:11:00] ourselves. For one that I didn’t know, I was pretty organized when I was in school but that’s just because how I grew up, like I grew up in mainland China.
So literally every day before we go back to our home, in school, we will have a little notebook, and then you write down what your assignments are. So after doing that for nine years, when you go to college, I still did the same thing. So I didn’t know there’s other ways to not do it.
I just had some building organizational tools in school, and I didn’t know that. I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess that’s something I learned. It wasn’t something internal.
Meghan: Some of the executive function strengths you may see in ADHDers may be goal directed persistence or meta cognition, some stress tolerance, also flexibility.
And so being able to say, okay, no problem. I’ll just go ahead and move on to this next task without it being like a an emotional issue.
And in some cases that’s not every ADHDers again, like every brain is different. But I can speak for myself and myself only. It’s like [00:12:00] flexibility is one of my strengths and big picture thinking is also one of my strengths. And you may see the neurotypical brain and flexibility is a huge challenge. And being able to jump from one task to the next is a huge challenge. And in some ways you may see the negative side, like people will talk about it from a negative perspective when it comes to ADHD Oh, you can’t stay on task. But the neurotypical that has an inability, like flexibility is a weaker executive function.
Sometimes task switching can be a really a big challenge. And you need a longer runway to be able to go from point A to point B with the short notice.
Ying: Yeah, that’s so interesting. So it’s almost flip the coin and see maybe, yeah, we have a harder time to stay on task, but the bonus side is we can jump from task A to B really fast. That makes sense because I’ve always worked in startup and part of working startup is that the priorities may change from one week to the next.
And I usually adapt pretty quickly. So I didn’t [00:13:00] know that there was other ways to do it. So now I know.
Meghan: Yeah, but if flexibility is hard for you, then that’s going to be a challenge and you’re not going to want to work for a startup. You’re going to want to work for an organization that’s more established.
Ying: that makes total sense. And the stress tolerance that one, I think I hear a lot too, because a lot of ADHD folks tend to gravitate towards jobs. That’s really high stress, high risk, almost the ER jobs or jobs that really require like just being on your feet and thinking really quickly, then we seem to thrive in those situations.
Meghan: Exactly. And part of my job is in operations and doing some emergency response. Like I was calm during those moments where everybody else around me was freaking out. Then it’s almost looked like you never can be right.
Sometimes it’s like you breathe and you can’t be right. And so it’s I’m not responding in a way that people want you to respond
because. I’m calm and saying okay, my brain is moving really quickly and is solving this. I’m a problem solver. So like I can solve this problem and get everybody out of the space [00:14:00] safely versus stopping, freaking out, trying to regulate my own emotions and then figuring out how to get everybody else safety.
That doesn’t work in an emergency situation.
And then sometimes you’ll be like how come you’re not freaking out? Like you must not care. And I do care. I’m trying to get you out safely. Let me do my part. You do your part. And that’s recognizing that my strength is that I can be calm like I can function in stressful situations.
I’m flexible. So I can task switch really quickly in order to save us all versus versus being dysregulated. And then it being a disaster.
Ying: We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background [00:15:00] are in positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
tell me more about I think you mentioned something about perseverance as well.
Meghan: Perseverance and persistence. That’s about the C word is what I call it being consistent. And that is something that you will always hear from influencers. Let’s talk about literally anything.
Like the job is you have to be consistent. You have to be consistent. And it’s I need to be persistent. Being consistent is actually going to be really challenging for the ADHD brain for a number of reasons. Like working memory time management, emotional control. And so if those are your weaker executive functions, like consistency can be harder.
And and sometimes it’s no fault of your own, right? It’s sometimes it’s just a working memory challenge. Like if I have a fitness goal that I’m trying to meet. I may wake up and literally forget that I’m supposed to go to the gym at this particular time without alarms and reminders and whatnot.[00:16:00]
And then the day goes on. It’s oh, shoot, I have an exercise today. So It’s about being persistent and, persistence is like always trying, like knowing that I’m going to be moving forward versus trying to be stuck on this idea. ‘It’s if I don’t do this every day, then I’m a failure.’
Like, have I tried to do this? What am I doing to move towards this goal? In a way that works for me. And so are you focused on the end or you focus on the process? And my process doesn’t necessarily have to look like your process.
Ying: Yeah. I love what you said about moving towards the goal in a realistic way, because I have high energy, medium energy, low energy days, and that’s something I always walk my clients through. Okay, on a low energy day, how do you envision this goal will be met? What does that version of the goal looks like?
And since we’re already talking about this, what are some strategies that You help ADHD folks at work and some of the common challenges I’ve seen my own clients are they’re overwhelmed. They felt a sense of perpetually being [00:17:00] behind or they cannot really start on tasks that don’t interest them.
Or is the fear of how they’re being perceived, and then leads to not asking for help, which leads to more overwhelm, and then the cycle starts again.
Meghan: Exactly. And one thing I always like when I work with my clients it’s as do you know your capacity or like what is your capacity
and, Depending on the field capacity can look different. But the expectations are also really different too.
So I work with a lot of people in education and education is notorious for giving people more work than they can actually manage. And there’s this combination of how can I be more productive with my time as somebody with ADHD in the workplace with these responsibilities, but also do I need to have an honest conversation with my supervisor or whoever it is that I’m working for about the workload
because you also don’t want to be in a place where people are trying to convince you that you’re crazy because you can’t finish all your tasks.
And the reality is nobody in that position can [00:18:00] finish the tasks. It doesn’t make sense. And recognizing that sometimes some of these positions do overload their employees, and it can start to make you feel as the ADHDer like you are losing your mind and that you just can’t get out of this hole.
But sometimes the reality is like you just have too much work on your plate. And so that is a reality that we need to be honest about as well. And yes, there are ways in which we could be more productive with our time. And so that’s something that we will talk about. Like, how are we actually using our time?
How much of that time is being given towards your strengths? How much of that time is given towards your executive functions? Is there anything from there that can be given to somebody else? In order to make it work, but also do you have too much on your plate and then how can we have that conversation and navigate that conversation with your direct supervisor, so that some of that can actually be taken off and prioritize and that’s the other thing, if you’re weak executive function is planning and prioritization.
How can we make sure that we’re meeting with our supervisors are on the [00:19:00] regular basis to help navigate those conversations with planning and prioritization, do I have a weekly check in with somebody that says, This is the way that I’m thinking about organizing and planning my week these are the way that I’m prioritizing these projects that are on my plate.
Does that make sense to you. Does it not. Is there parts of this project that I’m missing. And being able to have those really direct conversations with the supervisors. And that’s something that the employee or the supervisor could lead.
Ying: Yeah, and I can already see for ADHD folks, this might be challenging of having these kind of very direct conversations the fear of rejection and the rejection sensitivity dysphoria. What are some tips you have for people to navigate kind of these type of conversations of recognizing our own needs and advocating our own needs and having very direct conversation?
Meghan: In this particular context, like that’s where sometimes the supervisor can step in as well. There are leaders and managers with ADHD also. And I don’t want to [00:20:00] forget that fact, like we’re not just the employee, we’re also leading organizations.
Our ADHD also impacts our direct reports as well. And so it’s just what management training have you had? They are ADHD or not. And then how are you creating inclusive environments by taking the lead on okay, we will be meeting weekly. And this is a template that we’re going to be using in order to do our check ins.
We are going to be talking and having honest conversations about work. And so we’re creating a culture where that is normalized. And so there isn’t that fear of Oh my God do I have to talk about all of these things that I may not be doing, but no, because the leader has already set the organizational culture with us and normalized, and you’re not being criticized and you’re not being looked upon in a negative light because we’re having these honest conversations at the beginning, so like creating an environment where we’re welcoming the opportunities to talk about the good and the bad without judgment.
Essentially are we creating a psychologically safe space.
Ying: [00:21:00] Talk about the good and the bad without any judgment. I think that’s a very tangible way to think about psychological safety. What about some other strategies about how do you help ADHD folks to get started, especially on a task that don’t necessarily interest them?
Meghan: Yes, you’re exactly right, like we have an interest based brain. One, it’s having an honest conversation with ourselves about what I’m actually interested in and what I’m not interested in and then using different strategies to help get you started with for things that you’re not interested in.
And so that may be getting out of the office that may be getting on a body doubling session that may be grabbing a colleague and saying Hey, do you want to go to this coffee shop to work on this project together? That may be like I, I work from home so I have a a walking pad.
I will put my desk in standing desk mode and then I will utilize my walking pad to increase my dopamine in order to make that work? Or am I using a timer that says listen, I got 25 minutes to get this done. How much can I get done in 25 minutes? And even if you go past 25 minutes, you’re [00:22:00] already started. And so it’s tricking your brain to not necessarily focus on the task that you’re doing that you don’t want to do, but focusing it on something that is a little bit more intriguing and more exciting.
Ying: Yeah. Body doubling works wonders for me too. What are some other common topics that you have worked with for your clients.
Meghan: something that comes up a lot , I don’t know if it’s necessarily just industry based on who I’m working with, but working memory is a challenge for the ADHD brain in a lot of cases, and I try to encourage people to stop trying to keep everything in your head.
But then also don’t put it in multiple spaces where you’re going to forget where it is. And how do we minimize our strategies when we’re planning and doing project management work, are we utilizing particular software. I personally like to use like Asana or Trello or like some other project management software tool.
And they all have very similar functions using the project management tool that’s going to work for you. And then being able to track all of the tasks that you have to do in a way that can [00:23:00] give you reminders. You can shift around and reorganize in a way that’s going to work for you.
And I do that. And I still use Post its like let’s be honest. I love a good post it and I feel like I should have stock in post its. It helps me to be able to do brain dump. That was one thing I learned as well is what’s the difference between a task and a projects. The reality of what you’re doing is doing a brain dump and enlisting a bunch of projects but not really breaking down the different tasks that you need to do and then overestimating how much time is actually you actually need in order to get it done.
Ying: What about your go to recommendations for working memory for appointments or meetings? Some ADHD folks may have issues keep track of those as well.
Meghan: Yeah, it’s making those visual reminders. It’s getting everything out of your head. So when I work with my clients, we don’t just do awareness around ADHD and how it’s impacting you by doing the executive functioning assessment and having the honest conversation about your job duties.
And then building some level of acceptance around that, but also building in those accommodations, but we do [00:24:00] action steps. And all around the action is habit building. So how do you create habits that allow you to put these different strategies in place on a regular basis? Do you have a habit? Can you do habit stacking? Do you know how to build a habit?
And then from there it’s, you’re less likely to forget certain things. And so for example I have an eight month old and pregnancy and ADHD is a whole different conversation.
But when I tell you my working memory was horrible during pregnancy and right after I had him, I was forgetting everything and I had to build in some strategies for myself.
I said, okay, Megan, you know how to do this. You know how to build the strategies. And this is clearly a problem. And I had to remember it was like, Megan, you have ADHD, stop trying to act like you can remember all these things because you can’t. And I said, okay.
Okay. And this is a conversation that I have with myself. Megan, you have ADHD. You need to build an accommodation. It’s let’s get it together. This is what you tell your clients. You need to tell yourself this as well. And [00:25:00] so I literally painted my front door and with whiteboard paint. I made a list of all the essential things that I needed to have before I left the house. My keys, my phone but now I have a baby. So I’m like milk, my breast pump, like I needed all these things, diapers and not just milk, but also a bottle. Cause I was walking out of the house without some essential items. And so I put a whole list of checklists. And I have to clearly look at the door before I open it. So I can see the checklist and make sure that I have everything. And, as it’s been going on and I’ve got my husband on board too. And so now he’s added things to the list.
And now I see that I looked at the list and I was like, Oh, there’s different color whiteboard. That’s not my handwriting. He must’ve
added stuff to the list, but it’s actually really helpful because the other day I was like, Oh my God, I’m so glad that you added these two items to the list. Because when I saw the board and remember to go upstairs and go get them.
And having a supportive partner is also crucial and helpful. that’s added a little bonus like you’re not going to be able to navigate this world [00:26:00] by yourself. It helps to have thoughtful people and thoughtful partners in your life in your home and at work, and that’s why it’s so important. That’s why I give that message to both the ADHDers and managers say you’re an important factor that impacts the mental health of your employees. And so it’s important for you to get on board to better understand ADHD as well.
Ying: We’ll take a little break from the show and talk about my ADHD coaching. So if you’re interested in accomplishing more by doing less, building your ADHD resiliency, amplifying your strengths, as well as craft your own ADHD toolbox and narratives. I’m currently taking 1 on 1 coaching clients. So feel free to visit adhdasiangirl.com/coaching and book a free coaching introductory call with me. My background are in positive psychology, mindfulness, as well as lots of ADHD tried and true tools. I’m looking forward to working with you. Now let’s turn back to the show.
Yeah. That [00:27:00] perfectly leads to the question of what are some institution level recommendations you have for organizations in general? Because we as individuals, we exist, like you said, around the people and environments, like the environments we’re in impacts us a lot.
So tell me more about what some recommendations you would have.
Meghan: It does. And my recommendations come from every different level. And so I have recommendations that are related to recruitment like before we even get on in the hiring process. Those shifts within the organizational culture needs to happen before the employee even is working there.
And so what is your hiring process look like? Is your hiring process inclusive? Like in the HR world, we talk about the culture fit versus culture add, like trying to move towards culture add versus culture fit because people are getting excluded from the process. Is your application process redundant?
And so are you asking for a resume in addition to asking them to fill out all of the information again, and then you asking for a cover letter, but then also asking for short answer questions that should be [00:28:00] answering the questions in the cover letter. And so all of that screams, forget it.
I’m not going to be even applying for this job. So you’re excluding a a large number of people that could actually really help your organization grow and be successful by creating a process that is not inclusive.
And you want to fix it there, but then you have, once the person starts, and what does your onboarding look like? How are you creating a psychologically safe environment for your employees? Do you even know whether or not you are or not?
And how are you evaluating yourself, are you getting upward feedback as a leader as a manager so that you can create better work environments for your staff. Are you creating some structure around the assignments that you give them or you just randomly giving people things and expecting people to get them done without any context.
Are you creating regular check ins for people in order to be able to have these honest conversations. What are you doing as a leader and manager to best support your staff that are probably neurodiverse? There’s some new research out [00:29:00] around 70 percent of the workforce is neurodiverse anyway.
And this is a crucial time for there to be a shift in management and leadership practices in order to make more inclusive environments.
Ying: Definitely. I definitely think the regular check ins those helped me a whole lot, like you said, especially if it’s like a psychological safe environment, then I’m asking honest questions, I can get another pass on my prioritization skill. And those were super helpful for me as an employee.
Meghan: And the other thing that we didn’t talk about is about accommodations. And so are you accessing accommodations through your workspace? And again, there’s a lot that goes into that process. Before you even apply for accommodations, there’s a lot that goes in that process.
Cause you know, one question is is this environment psychologically safe? Am I going to be okay if I do disclose? And then you factor in any other identifiers. As well. And so like I identify as a black woman and with ADHD. And so [00:30:00] which area do I need to advocate for that day? Do I feel safe as a woman in that space?
Do I feel safe as a black woman in this space? Do I feel safe because somebody with ADHD in that space. And once you start adding all those identifiers you can look at your work environment and be like, okay, maybe this isn’t the space for me. All. And maybe I’m looking for an environment that is more welcoming of difference.
You need to have honest conversations with yourself. You can’t avoid the conversations with yourself.
Ying: Yeah. And I love how we said before, like how you figure out the applying strategies for yourself. Like the self talking model there is so positive. Most of the time, that is not a self talk that people are having in their brain. So yeah, that’s awesome that you just okay, let’s figure out the strategies.
Meghan: I went to the school for social work too. So it helps that I’ve had years and not even years, decades of understanding cognitive behavioral therapy. And shifting the way that you’re thinking and shifting the way that you’re talking to yourself and being able to recognize when you are going down a negative spiral [00:31:00] loop and being able to pull yourself out of it.
And that takes time and so it’s not something like if you are listening to this and you’re like oh my god I can’t do that like you may not be able to do it today but you can.
It takes time. And so there are specific strategies. There’s also a shift in mindset that you need to have around not just yourself, but just yourself in a larger context.
And, I always start from recognizing that there’s me, but then I’m also part of a social environment and the social environment impacts me just as much as I impact it. And recognizing like where am I, where did I grow up and, this is all thought work, that I’ve done over decades.
Meghan: Like I’ve struggled with the eating disorder. And so it’s but it was also took me to recognize that I grew up in the eighties and the nineties where nutrition policies were questionable in the United States. And and when people in legislation are having conversations about whether or not pizza is a vegetable am I really at fault for choosing pizza over broccoli?
And It’s, I grew up in a school where they gave me coffee milk, should I have been drinking coffee [00:32:00] milk as a elementary school? Probably not. And just recognizing that the policies around us and the people around us and the mindset of the time periods that we’re in also impacts the way that we think about ourselves.
And, that’s the same conversation that we’re having right now around social media and kids and the comparison cycle that people are having right now. And so it’s, 30 years from now when people are trying to now heal themselves from all the trauma that they’ve experienced as a kid.
That’s going to be the conversation. It’s we had these platforms that were encouraging all of these comparisons and images for brains that were really underdeveloped. I will never come from the perspective of it’s always me that has to shift.
It’s also the environment that we’re in and asking yourself, how has the environment around you also created some of the thoughts that you’re having?
And are you okay with that?
And I wasn’t okay with that. And so I was like, okay that’s them. This is me. This is what I want to do.
And it’s all about being intentional about, the direction that you want to go into.
Ying: Yeah. I love the [00:33:00] question of, are you okay with that? That kind of already first step of distancing ourselves with our thoughts, not identifying fully with our thoughts and the cognitive flexibility of Hey, you can choose your thoughts. Yeah. I’m a meditation teacher in training. I got excited there.
Meghan: When you’re flexible enough, you can be like, okay, no, I’m not okay with that. Now I need to shift.
You can make that shift a little bit faster because you’re recognizing like, oh, actually, no, I’m not okay with that. And so let me do something different.
Ying: I love what you said about being an individual in the social environment and the particular time we’re in, because the time reflects the collective thought and that leads me to the question of being a woman of color and being a mom in this particular time and environment, how does those intersectionality of your identity impact your ADHD experience, or how does ADHD impacts those identities of yours?
Meghan: Just in general, being a woman with ADHD and then going through the whole pregnancy and in fourth trimester, your hormones are all over the place. And so recognizing your hormones are directly impact your ADHD and so they’re all connected.
[00:34:00] And so it’s not like there’s ADHD and then there’s the rest of your body no, like dopamine, neurodiferent, like others hormones are interacting with each other that can make your ADHD symptoms worse or better depending on like where you are in your cycle. Where are you like menopause or premenopause?
And we’re tagging on the pregnancy part and the post postpartum part with this major drop in your hormones. You’re like, Oh my God, what’s going on? So it’s crucial to be able to know that you have access to a bunch of different tools that you can lean on when you need to. That’s why I work with women specifically too, because it is unique, like ADHD in women is unique compared to men because of those changes and also just where we are and, the whole culture around where women are within this crazy world of ours.
So when you have ADHD and, you’re in a space where body image is a major thing. And again, eighties and nineties, it was crazy. You go back and watch some of the TV that we were watching when we were growing up and how they talked about women and it was [00:35:00] just crazy. The 80s and 90s are crazy when it came to body image and then you talk on the ADHD part. So now you’re really internalizing that and now you’re really ruminating and it causes a lot of negative talk. And so when you have those intersectionalities and you think about the environments that we live in as women it can really have a negative impact on our self esteem as well.
And so we’re hearing even more negative feedback in a way that is really unhealthy.
Ying: Yeah, definitely. And also the expectation of women usually are the ones doing the executive functioning kind of work in households and organizations.
Meghan: Exactly. And it impacts relationships and I was in a management and a leadership position. So I was making decisions all day so by the time I got home, I had decision fatigue. And then the person that I was dating at the time
and so I’m giving you the opportunity to make a decision. That’s, what’s really happening.
It’s not that I can’t make a decision. I don’t want to, because I’m tired. I’ve been making decisions all day. My executive functioning is low. And. [00:36:00] If I have the opportunity for somebody else to take a lead on what we’re going to be having for dinner, or if we’re going to the movies on Friday or Saturday, then go ahead.
The decisions that I’m making during the day are way more crucial and have a lot more impact than other people, other than like we’re going out to eat or not and no, it’s not that I can’t make decisions without you. I’m choosing not to, I’m choosing not to make a decision because I’m recognizing that I’m maxed out and this decision is not important.
at the end of the day there’s this expectation that because I’m a woman, I’m supposed to know what we’re having for dinner every night, or I’m supposed to know all these things. And it’s one, I don’t care. And two, I’ve already made enough decisions today. I’m done.
And then you tack on like now being a mom is making decisions for a whole other person. And I don’t have the option to not make good decisions for another human being. And so recognizing I can’t be maxed out during the day because I need to
be on when I come home.
And so It’s building in different strategies during your workday so [00:37:00] that you have enough in the tank when you get home because I don’t want to leave the workday maxed out.
Ying: That is so interesting to think about. How do you navigate that, especially I can tell you’re very passionate about your work and most ADHD folks are very passionate about their work and then we like just press the gas all the time and then how do we know how to reserve some level of executive functioning tank when we come home?
Meghan: That’s when it goes back to knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are. Do you know the areas in your workday that are maxing you out and how do you limit those? Or how can those be outsourced. Now I’m more cognitive of the fact that there are some things that are going to be maxing out my weaker executive functions that I will have to outsource.
I will have to delegate more often so that I know when I come home, I’m not tired.
And then doing, making sure that you’re doing things that energize you. And also do you know your ebbs and flows?
Like I have a candle on my store that talks about recognizing your ebbs and flows. And I put that [00:38:00] saying on the candle so that it’s there so that I can see it on a regular basis.
I need to constantly remember that I need to better understand what my ebbs and flows are and I need to work with them. So I know that around two, three o’clock Is not the flow time. That is the in the valley. I’m tired.
I don’t want to do much of anything. And do I have specific tasks that I can do during that time period versus the other time period?
Ying: How would you suggest somebody who, like a lot of ADHD folks I have talked to, they’re just in that overwhelmed state or burnout. They’re like, I can’t even start to recognize what’s my ebbs and flows or what’s my strengths and weaknesses. What are some go to tips you will give for people in that state?
They’re just like, Oh, I’m overwhelmed all the time.
Meghan: Yep. And that’s when I would say you need to get accommodations at work,
and you need to hire a coach, and you need to utilize that time your working hours.
In order to be able to access that. If you have a nine to five job and you’re working for somebody else, you need to go that time in during the workday.
The back of my head response is but I don’t have time to do that. But you do and [00:39:00] so you do because you have the legal right to. And so if you are asking for the accommodation to access to have an hour of day where you can gather yourself and they approve it,
then you have an hour a day where you can gather yourself and approve it,
And then that’s when you need to have a conversation with your manager around your workload and realistic expectations when it comes to meeting some of these timelines and, asking for a coach to work with you to think about okay, these weaker executive functions are majority of my job and I’m struggling here.
And so I need some assistance. And do you have a project management tool? Does your job offer you one? They don’t? Ask them to buy you one,
and then ask them to give you training on how to use it.
Ying: I love the idea of asking for the coach because in my head, I was trained in economics. I’m like, if you spend one hour trying to figure out the problem yourself, that hour is better spent. If you talk to a coach and then the return is much better that way.
Like you can hit the problem from so many different angles. Are there any final words you want to say to the audience [00:40:00] about figuring out ADHD, especially at the workplace?
Meghan: I want people to know where to find me. And so people can find me on Instagram at ADHD at work. My website is adhd.co as well. I am working on a group coaching program that hopefully will be launched. I do have a work Facebook group. It’s called the workplace and entrepreneurship network for women with ADHD. And this is what I’m coining as like the LinkedIn for women with ADHD, where people can unmask, have honest conversations with each other about how to best support each other within the workplace gives tools and ideas and strategies. Also, people with ADHD are also working in HR. If you are hiring for somebody post a job. There are also other ADHD coaches in the group too. So if you have questions, like people can ask questions and get them answered.
Ying: Love that. Thank you so much, Megan, for taking the time to talk to me today. And yeah, so many interesting tangible tips, and I’m definitely going on your website and taking that assessment [00:41:00] of executive functioning right now. I’m like, yeah, I don’t know my strengths and weaknesses. I have some hints and clue, but I’m like, I don’t know the details.
Meghan: Yes. I’m so glad.
And let me know what you come up with.
Ying: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. If you enjoy today’s episode, please feel free to drop a comment and review on apple podcasts or Spotify podcast. Or send me a DM on social media or send me an email to [email protected] Sending lots of love to you and have a good day.